Author Topic: 1 Constitution Hill  (Read 339 times)

ironside

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1 Constitution Hill
« on: October 28, 2017, 10:05:46 PM »
Anyone have any gen on this building? I thought I heard Carl Chinn say it was built in memory of Lord Roberts of Kandahar by his parents, I must be mistaken because he was 82 when he died in 1914. Wiki says it was built by H B Sale Diesinkers in 1995 a memorial to Lord Roberts, strange since he was still living, and although famous had no connection to Birmingham.

Phil

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2017, 11:37:24 PM »
Hi Ironside

I have always been under the impression it was Built by HB Sale Diesinkers, It was designed in 1895 and 1896 by William Doubleday and James R. Shaw for H. B. Sale. The tower was built in 1896 as a memorial to Lord Roberts of Kandahar (1832–1914).
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ironside

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2017, 10:59:19 AM »
I think I should have put 1895 not 1995, but is it usual to construct memorials to people still living?

Scipio

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2017, 12:20:29 PM »

Anyone have any gen on this building? I thought I heard Carl Chinn say it was built in memory of Lord Roberts of Kandahar by his parents, I must be mistaken because he was 82 when he died in 1914. Wiki says it was built by H B Sale Diesinkers in 1995 a memorial to Lord Roberts, strange since he was still living, and although famous had no connection to Birmingham.


I remember in the 60's the Surfside Stop café occupied some of the ground floor the part on Constitution Hill, H B Sale had a works around the back on Summer Lane/Henrietta St . I used to have a drink in the Hen & Chickens with their handyman a bloke
named Alf . I don't think all of that building was occupied by Sales, as I seem to remember collecting some lighting fittings from there while I was doing my apprenticeship in the 60's .

Phil

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2017, 12:43:25 PM »
I think I should have put 1895 not 1995, but is it usual to construct memorials to people still living?

Perhaps it was built to commemorate one of the battles he won in India or Afghanistan?
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mikejee

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2017, 05:23:04 PM »
According to English Heritage (The Birmingham Jewellery Quarter, by Cattell et al) the building was purpose built c1895-6m for H B Sale, with architects William Doubleday and James R Shaw. It was originally planned as 5 stories, but only 4 were built at first, but a fifth was added mid 20th century

Phil

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2017, 05:31:54 PM »
Mike

The thing is was the tower built as a monument with the works added to it, myself I think it would be a complicated set of issues that would being about a joining of a monument and a commercial enterprise, but there again the Victorians did were known for their outlandish buildings.
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mikejee

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2017, 05:42:40 PM »
The reference I quoted does not specifically state either,but describes the tower in detail, including the H.B Sale in terracotta as part of the building, implying , to me, that  it was considered to be built with the remainder of the building. Certainly the firm's name on the tower would indicate , to me, that it was built for Sale with the rest of the building

Phil

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2017, 06:04:50 PM »
Mike

That is my view as well, but the OP states that  "he thought he heard  Carl Chinn say it was built in memory of Lord Roberts of Kandahar by his parents" Do you think they could have had a connection with H B Sale?
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ironside

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2017, 06:38:54 PM »
Thanks for the replies. Reading how popular Roberts was with the ranks and the public it isn't really surprising that a building would be dedicated to him. I was wondering also if Sale had any connection with him, it seems it was a small world among the elite in those days.  I think the 2nd Anglo Afghan War would have been his most recent glorification. Also I wonder if there is any dedication to Roberts on the building.

mikejee

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Re: 1 Constitution Hill
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2017, 07:02:30 PM »
There do not seem to be any authoritative references to this connection. The main source of the statement seems to be a Wikipedia entry, which lists their source as vol 1 of David Harvey's book "Birmingham, The City Centre Past & Present". I can find no reference to the building in that volume. Indeed, the volume does not seem to extend as far as Constitution Hill, and Constitution Hill is not listed in the Index. The fact that the English Heritage building listing ( http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/Details/Default.aspx?id=216993 ) makes no mention of this, to me, makes it very dubious, especially as the only real reference (above) seems to lead nowhere.


Correction. I have made an error, and was looking at vol 2 of Harvey's book, So the above mention of it is not true