Author Topic: Borstal  (Read 2696 times)

vamann

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 08:24:26 AM »
when I was a kid having no dad my mom had to be both and she was strong in will power  no meant no go to bed meant go  to bed now not an hour later I never asked for any thing because I new I would not get it
 I would not dare to answer back and a police man was called sir but what I did have was love and mom had time for me we would sit a play cards  or snakes and ladders and now and then she would take me to the pictures has a treat  no one had a phone stuck to there face kids went on foot to school 40 plus to a class play  up you got the stick one thing we all had in common we all had nothing   and respect
Much the same position, my parents were divorced when I was six months old and my Sister and i were brought up by my Mother.  Never realised what a difficult life my Mother had as she did everything to bring us up properly, unfortunately I rebelled when I was seventeen, after meeting my first girlfriend, I now realise what a difficult little sod I had become but still managed to make something of myself in the end.

roy one

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2018, 08:38:26 AM »

Gang crime: Absentee dads blamed for rise in gang killings


A FORMER head of the schools watchdog yesterday blamed absentee fathers for the rise in gang-related violence among Britainís youths.
each day is a blessing and I bless each day when it comes

JudithM

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 01:11:40 PM »
Interesting times, there has always been the rogues, vandals etc. It seems more widespread these days, as if there is no respect for self or others. As in persons or belongings. There almost seems a defiance in the youngsters.


Is it the parenting, the food or what they are exposed to on telly or the net. As a nipper is was always scared if I did anything wrong because of the consequence of getting my old mans leather belt across my bare back-side.
I think a lot of it is the knowledge that there's a lack of consequences. They know that if they get caught they'll basically just get a slap on the wrist.  Kids are very clever & knowledgeable about all sorts of things, but that knowledge doesn't come with the experience you have in later life so it's more reckless and also more self-centred.

Even as a very young child you know what you can get away with.  When you are little, you know just how far you can push your parents - what you can get away with, where that line is drawn.  As you get older it's school - which teachers classes you can mess around in etc. They'll know that the law can't really touch them until a certain age for these sorts of behaviours, so they just do what they want without any concern of the affect it has on others.

I know in certain cultural backgrounds there is a lack of male role models within the family and it can affect behaviour (I have family & friends in teaching & this is something that they have to deal with a lot), but it isn't all down to that.  Not all kids from broken homes turn to gang culture or general yobbishness & I'm sure there are plenty from stable family backgrounds that do.

Maybe there is something to be said about the lack of freedom kids have when they are young.  We were always playing out, going to the woods & up the canal, we had responsibilities as to when were could go, what time we were due back, who we should tell if we were going far.  Many kids these days aren't allowed any further than their back gardens (if they have them) and many don't even walk to & from school when they are young, so it's not surprising when they do get to an age when they are allowed certain freedoms that they don't know what to do with them & how to behave socially.

I don't suppose there is any 'on size fits all' solution either.  Sometimes it's up to the individual child.
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roy one

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2018, 02:14:00 PM »

one thing that kids and yobs understand is pain any thing that can inflict pain they keep away from  some thing has simple has a wasp  or a bee


French exchange students  on a housing estate   was giving the residents a hard time playing up till late and in the day time they used to sit on a low wall round a house that also had a street light  they was asked to keep the noise down but they took no notice


so some one got some jam and sweet sticky stuff made in to a mix and painted it on the inside of the low wall where the students sat  most times about 20 of them  it did not take long before the wasps found the jam and made a bee line for it (no pun) one or two of the students got stung word got about end of the students they kept away     job done
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robx52

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2018, 03:50:32 PM »
I'm sorry but  education on living went out when Labour bought out no smacking,you didn't have to belt a child to correct them just a  threat would do.It happened to me loads of times and soon taught me to respect what my parents wanted of me.I soon learned.

Corporal punishment was banned in England in 1986 during Mrs Thatchers time in office.

countrylad

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 07:43:33 PM »
There was a time when communities regulated themselves. One housing estate I lived on had a row of Six shops, these were new in 1964. The paper shop sold, sweets, toys, pens, pencils etc. After it had been open a few months they realised a lot of stock was being nicked. The owner of the shop put a large notice in the window, it read ' Any child caught stealing from this shop, will be taken into the back of the shop, belted and the police called'. Stealing from the shop reduced.


Imagine putting such a sign in the shop window today!

Scipio

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 08:52:04 PM »

I think a lot of it is the knowledge that there's a lack of consequences. They know that if they get caught they'll basically just get a slap on the wrist.  Kids are very clever & knowledgeable about all sorts of things, but that knowledge doesn't come with the experience you have in later life so it's more reckless and also more self-centred.

Even as a very young child you know what you can get away with.  When you are little, you know just how far you can push your parents - what you can get away with, where that line is drawn.  As you get older it's school - which teachers classes you can mess around in etc. They'll know that the law can't really touch them until a certain age for these sorts of behaviours, so they just do what they want without any concern of the affect it has on others.

I know in certain cultural backgrounds there is a lack of male role models within the family and it can affect behaviour (I have family & friends in teaching & this is something that they have to deal with a lot), but it isn't all down to that.  Not all kids from broken homes turn to gang culture or general yobbishness & I'm sure there are plenty from stable family backgrounds that do.

Maybe there is something to be said about the lack of freedom kids have when they are young.  We were always playing out, going to the woods & up the canal, we had responsibilities as to when were could go, what time we were due back, who we should tell if we were going far.  Many kids these days aren't allowed any further than their back gardens (if they have them) and many don't even walk to & from school when they are young, so it's not surprising when they do get to an age when they are allowed certain freedoms that they don't know what to do with them & how to behave socially.

I don't suppose there is any 'on size fits all' solution either.  Sometimes it's up to the individual child.
 


Judith if you say many kids are not allowed outside the gate who are these 12yo up the town fighting ? I suggest that the 0-15yo while at school are bombarded with information to the tune of if you get caught with knives etc you are going to go away , either that or lock the parents up . I'm sure that would bring one of the family down to earth

JudithM

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2018, 01:19:10 PM »
 


Judith if you say many kids are not allowed outside the gate who are these 12yo up the town fighting ? I suggest that the 0-15yo while at school are bombarded with information to the tune of if you get caught with knives etc you are going to go away , either that or lock the parents up . I'm sure that would bring one of the family down to earth

I did say kids - meaning youngsters.  By the time you get to senior school age then I don't really class them as 'kids' as such.  Certainly by 15 are a 'teenager' not a 'kid' - in my eyes at least!  The suggestion I was making was that if they were allowed to socialise more when young, by the time they got to early teens they'd at least have a better idea of how to behave with each other in a public place.

Yes, there is an issue with knives at schools, but this is not new - there were kids who carried knives when I was at school.  There was fighting too - always has been between rival groups of people.

I don't think you can entirely blame the parents, at least not all of them.  Some kids are always going to misbehave no matter what their home life is like. Someone from a loving supporting home can become the worst, while someone from a broken home can become the best.  You can't punish someone for someone else's misdeeds.

There is no one solution.  It's not all kids that are bad, just a few.  Probably much the same percentage overall as there is for each generation.  The difference now is that we get to hear about it more & quickly because of how easy it is for information to be passed around.  Not so long ago a fight between youths in the Town centre would have warranted a few lines in the local paper that many would have overlooked.  Now, there's pictures & video that people have taken on their phones & it becomes a full page article.

I'm not saying it's not bad, I'm just saying it's no worse that things that have happened in previous generations.  Look at the mod's & rockers fights that there used to be in Brighton for a start.
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Edmund Fifield

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2018, 06:42:02 PM »
Judith,you say that from your time at school there have always been children carrying knives,in my childhood in the 40-50 no child carried knives,we had the occasional punch up (well I did ) but that was about all,It's only in the last 40 years that it as got worse because of all the Drugs and the immigrant gangs.

frederick

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2018, 07:15:35 PM »
E F,
I agree with you. There was no one tooled up it was the fists that where used. And there wasn't the money about to buy weapons.
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Scipio

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Re: Borstal
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 07:42:04 PM »

I did say kids - meaning youngsters.  By the time you get to senior school age then I don't really class them as 'kids' as such.  Certainly by 15 are a 'teenager' not a 'kid' - in my eyes at least!  The suggestion I was making was that if they were allowed to socialise more when young, by the time they got to early teens they'd at least have a better idea of how to behave with each other in a public place.

Yes, there is an issue with knives at schools, but this is not new - there were kids who carried knives when I was at school.  There was fighting too - always has been between rival groups of people.

I don't think you can entirely blame the parents, at least not all of them.  Some kids are always going to misbehave no matter what their home life is like. Someone from a loving supporting home can become the worst, while someone from a broken home can become the best.  You can't punish someone for someone else's misdeeds.

There is no one solution.  It's not all kids that are bad, just a few.  Probably much the same percentage overall as there is for each generation.  The difference now is that we get to hear about it more & quickly because of how easy it is for information to be passed around.  Not so long ago a fight between youths in the Town centre would have warranted a few lines in the local paper that many would have overlooked.  Now, there's pictures & video that people have taken on their phones & it becomes a full page article.

I'm not saying it's not bad, I'm just saying it's no worse that things that have happened in previous generations.  Look at the mod's & rockers fights that there used to be in Brighton for a start.


Mods and rockers were a different kettle of fish .At that time you were not reading about youngsters going around with knives every two minutes. Knives didn't feature at all in schools, the way  they do nowadays it's only in the norties that this fascination with knives has reared its head . It's become a culture , you're not trendy unless you're carrying a shivvy, just to getting back back to the M&R this was a all based around Bank Holiday weekends in the 60's , there wasn't a killing every day of the week with a knife . It was based on a good punch up , I'm not saying that knives , lumps of wood etc , were not used .To be honest I think the 50's were far worse than the 60's with the teds who used carried cut throat razors , bicycle chains etc .I lived through the 60's as a mod and nobody that I knew  carried anything malicious .